From mark.crain at louisville.edu Tue Dec 1 08:53:32 2009 From: mark.crain at louisville.edu (Mark M Crain) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 08:53:32 -0500 Subject: [labnetwork] Clean Room Garment Services In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20091130131252.02bd0de0@engr.wisc.edu> References: <57B3AC8F20A24F21BC592F9BE5A9F3CC@campus.ad.utdallas.edu> <7.0.1.0.2.20091130131252.02bd0de0@engr.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <4B14D990.716B.0008.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Here at the University of Louisville we do about the same. We have 18Mohm water on a recirculation loop so we fill a 35gal poly drum (water conductivity drops to 3-4Mohms) and use a pneumatic powered water pump (McMastercarr, $150) to provide the pressure from the tank to the Stailness steel washing machine. We actually did a particle count study from new suits out of the bag, looked at the count over a two week period and than washed them. The wash brought them to just shy of out of the bag. TMAH based developer does a great job of getting out photoresist stains as a pretreatment to the wash. Buying real suits and washing in house is cost effect compared to shipping out the laundry or the disposable suits. Clients (users) have their own suits, we all share the boots. Expect to pay $90 for a suit and $90 for a pair of boots. Mark >>> Daniel Christensen 11/30/2009 2:19 PM >>> At Univ of WI-Madison, we launder the smocks ourselves. We have RO water (about 1M-ohm) connected to a commercial washer and a commercial dryer with a HEPA filter on the inlet. We hire Undergraduates for the labor. It works out well, except for the periods when the undergrad's are either gone (Xmas, January break, Spring Break) or during test weeks. Then it falls on the staff to pick up the slack. This has proven to a burden to the staff during those times. Good Luck, Dan C At 08:40 AM 11/30/2009, Keith Bradshaw wrote: >We have been using G&K for our clean room garment service for five years. > >They were recently take over, and so we are taking a fresh look at >how we handle laundry. > > How have other labs handled laundry? > >What services have you used? > >Is it worthwhile doing it yourself? We have 80 smocks and shoe >pairs per week . > >Cordially, > >Keith > >Keith Bradshaw >972-883-2099 >RL 10 >University of Texas at Dallas Clean Room >NSERL building > >_______________________________________________ >labnetwork mailing list >labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu >https://www-mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork Daniel C. Christensen dan at engr.wisc.edu Univ of WI-Madison (608) 262-6877 FAX (608) 265-2614 _______________________________________________ labnetwork mailing list labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu https://www-mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork From bob at eecs.berkeley.edu Tue Dec 1 16:30:04 2009 From: bob at eecs.berkeley.edu (Bob Hamilton) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 13:30:04 -0800 Subject: [labnetwork] Clean Room Garment Services In-Reply-To: <4B14D990.716B.0008.0@gwise.louisville.edu> References: <57B3AC8F20A24F21BC592F9BE5A9F3CC@campus.ad.utdallas.edu> <7.0.1.0.2.20091130131252.02bd0de0@engr.wisc.edu> <4B14D990.716B.0008.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: At UC Berkeley Microlab we use disposable Tyvek "bunny suits", caps and booties plus net shoe covers under the booties. In addition, lab members wear nitrile gloves. We provide gowns as part the monthly access fee. Each lab members keeps their own in their "gowning box". Gowns gets changed when they show wear and tear and typically last about a week. Lab members are given a sheet of tacky labels so they are easy to identify when in the lab. We have not had issues with this gowning protocol effecting yield. When we opened in 1984 we did what industry did, we engaged a gowning service. This turned out to be a mafia-style gowning service. We showed them the door when we saw a regular pattern of cheating us. We determined fabric gowns were more bother than worth. With 350 lab members we have not regretted our decision and no intentions to revisit the issue as we move to our new, Marvell Nanofabrication Laboratory. Bob Hamilton Robert Hamilton University of California at Berkeley Microlab Facilities Manager Rm406 Cory Hall Berkeley, CA 94720-1770 510-642-2716 510-642-2916 (Fax) 510-325-7557 (Cell) bob at silicon2.eecs.berkeley.edu From rathbun at cnf.cornell.edu Wed Dec 2 00:01:18 2009 From: rathbun at cnf.cornell.edu (Lynn Rathbun) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:01:18 -0500 Subject: [labnetwork] Clean Room Garment Services In-Reply-To: References: <57B3AC8F20A24F21BC592F9BE5A9F3CC@campus.ad.utdallas.edu> <7.0.1.0.2.20091130131252.02bd0de0@engr.wisc.edu> <4B14D990.716B.0008.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20091201235643.060835e0@cnf.cornell.edu> While a bit of a divergence from the original topic, I have hundreds of blue dacron clean room suits that I will sell at a quite reasonable price. Prior to our movement into Duffield Hall 5 years ago, we owned our own gowns and paid to have them laundered ( about $5 per set). As we are a high use facility we probably owned a thousand of them. I still have many of them left. We currently rent our gowns from a service that provides clean room laundry service. It works well. ************************************************************** Dr. Lynn Rathbun Rathbun at cnf.cornell.edu NNIN Program Manager (607)-254-4872 CNF Laboratory Manager Duffield Hall (607)-255-8601 Fax Cornell University (607)-592-1549 Work Cell Ithaca, New York 14853 (607)-342-1880 Personal Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hbtusainc at yahoo.com Wed Dec 2 10:07:59 2009 From: hbtusainc at yahoo.com (Mario Portillo) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:07:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [labnetwork] Clean Room Garments Message-ID: <696937.5499.qm@web52308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Labnetwork Members, Having been 35 years in photolithography I visit Laboratories like yours globally, I would like to share with you my humble observations.. NOT ALL BUDGETS ARE CREATED EQUAL....What works well for one does not mean it is the most economical choice...only means you have the money. 1) "Launder Your Own" seems to be globally the number one choice and of course the most budget forgiving.. It is the most troublesome as you need to assign staff/students to take care of this. It can be a headache to keep a constant fluidity of these garments into the cleanroom at certain times of the year. Budget vs. Headaches......I think budget wins... 2) "Hired Outside Services" Expensive initially to buy the garments and pay for laudering services. Depending on your geographical location it can be expensive to maintain. 3) "Hired Outside Services" Rent the garments and laundering services. Depending on number of students I think the most expensive in the long run. 4) "Throw Away Garments" unless you buy big quantities at a good price and the wear n tear is resonable low, it can be expensive also.... In my opinion.....your budget determines your choice. Regards Mario A. Portillo Sr. High'born Technology USA Inc. Semiconductor Equipment Services 5970 SW 18th St. Suite 227 Boca Raton, FL 33433 561 504-0244 cell 561 470-1975 office 561 395-0074 fax hbtusainc at yahoo.com www.hbtusainc.com From hbtusainc at yahoo.com Wed Dec 2 15:21:14 2009 From: hbtusainc at yahoo.com (Mario Portillo) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:21:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [labnetwork] Cleanroom Garments Message-ID: <859527.58980.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I agree 100% with John from Purdue that the needed cleanliness of your Labs including lab garments absolutly is dictated by the requirements of your research...but blessed are those with a six million dollar yearly operating budget...not your average typical budget.. Just an after thought... Regards Mario A. Portillo Sr. High'born Technology USA Inc. Semiconductor Equipment Services 5970 SW 18th St. Suite 227 Boca Raton, FL 33433 561 504-0244 cell 561 470-1975 office 561 395-0074 fax hbtusainc at yahoo.com www.hbtusainc.com From bob at eecs.berkeley.edu Wed Dec 2 15:56:52 2009 From: bob at eecs.berkeley.edu (Bob Hamilton) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:56:52 -0800 Subject: [labnetwork] Cleanroom Garments In-Reply-To: <859527.58980.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <859527.58980.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not to quibble - the Microlab does state-of-the-art device research as well as nanofabrication research. We have ~350 lab members and log a huge number of lab-hours per year. Particle-control and yield have not been an issue here at Berkeley even though we use disposable garments. We have lots of issues to deal with including cost but particles are not one of them for present research. Given this statment, we do not have a Surfscan and I cannot provide a metric on particle density. Device yield and the stringent requirements for wafer/wafer bonding are good indicators, however. Bob Hamilton Robert Hamilton University of California at Berkeley Microlab Facilities Manager Rm406 Cory Hall Berkeley, CA 94720-1770 510-642-2716 510-642-2916 (Fax) 510-325-7557 (Cell) bob at silicon2.eecs.berkeley.edu -----Original Message----- From: labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu [mailto:labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu] On Behalf Of Mario Portillo Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:21 PM To: labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu Subject: [labnetwork] Cleanroom Garments I agree 100% with John from Purdue that the needed cleanliness of your Labs including lab garments absolutly is dictated by the requirements of your research...but blessed are those with a six million dollar yearly operating budget...not your average typical budget.. Just an after thought... Regards Mario A. Portillo Sr. High'born Technology USA Inc. Semiconductor Equipment Services 5970 SW 18th St. Suite 227 Boca Raton, FL 33433 561 504-0244 cell 561 470-1975 office 561 395-0074 fax hbtusainc at yahoo.com www.hbtusainc.com _______________________________________________ labnetwork mailing list labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu https://www-mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork From jrweaver at purdue.edu Wed Dec 2 16:31:10 2009 From: jrweaver at purdue.edu (Weaver, John R) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:31:10 -0500 Subject: [labnetwork] FW: Clean Room Garment Services Message-ID: <18AD986E445FE847B2A80B53E65704ED85707E97C3@VPEXCH02.purdue.lcl> Keith - First, it is very worthwhile to use a cleanroom laundry service rather than trying to clean the garments yourself. The cost of setup and maintenance of the equipment makes it worthwhile only if you are laundering massive quantities of garments. Without the right equipment and filtration on the dryers you will introduce large quantities of particles - mostly organics - into your cleanroom. That said, it is really easy to get "scalped" by cleanroom laundry suppliers. Some of them are straightforward and honest, others are highly dishonest. The dishonest ones will set a low per-garment price and make up the difference (and more) in lost-garment charges, extra fees, etc. Be very careful how you word your contract and what happens with "missing" garments. If you rent garments, consider garment lifetime and the end-of-cycle value of the garment. I had one company attempt to sell me a contract where the garments maintained their value forever and I had to pay the full garment price to end the lease - what I called "rent to never own." Realistically, a garment depreciates its full value over three years. I have always found it most cost-effective to purchase the garments from the garment manufacturer and contract with the cleanroom laundry for cleaning only - called "customer-owned goods (COG) in laundry jargon. If you can't afford the capital outlay, you can rent the garments but you need to be very careful about the wording of the contract, as mentioned above. A good laundry will supply you with particle data on their cleanroom - the folding/packaging area is critical - and more importantly particle count data on garments after drying. The Helmke Drum test is the industry standard and gives good, repeatable results. I also recommend a periodic (annual or every-other-year) audit of their facility. They should be able to show you good SPC data regarding their cleanliness, both of laundered goods and the room. Also look at their sorting methods and the way they eliminate cross-contamination between facilities. I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but inventory control is the key to dealing with a laundry. Make sure that you know how many garments you are shipping out and receiving until you have established a trust with the laundry, then audit the shipments periodically (I recommend monthly). I've worked with a number of major laundries over my years in industry, and chose Alsco Cleanroom Services (formerly American Cleanroom Garments (ACG) on setting up the facility at Purdue. They have served us well, and we recently renewed their contract. I also use them to launder my cleanroom-cleaning materials, such as cleanroom mops. That is very cost-effective. Please let me know if you need further information and/or details. I've been through the ringer with cleanroom laundries (pun intended) and ended up saving tens of thousands of dollars in a production facility by taking the loopholes out of the contract and ending up with a program that was fair to both companies, mine and the laundry. John John R. Weaver Facility Manager Birck Nanotechnology Center Purdue University (765) 494-5494 jrweaver at purdue.edu From: labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu [mailto:labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu] On Behalf Of Keith Bradshaw Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:00 PM To: labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu Subject: [labnetwork] Clean Room Garment Services We have been using G&K for our clean room garment service for five years. They were recently take over, and so we are taking a fresh look at how we handle laundry. How have other labs handled laundry? What services have you used? Is it worthwhile doing it yourself? We have 80 smocks and shoe pairs per week . Cordially, Keith Keith Bradshaw 972-883-2099 RL 10 University of Texas at Dallas Clean Room NSERL building -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrweaver at purdue.edu Wed Dec 2 16:31:48 2009 From: jrweaver at purdue.edu (Weaver, John R) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:31:48 -0500 Subject: [labnetwork] FW: Clean Room Garments Message-ID: <18AD986E445FE847B2A80B53E65704ED85707E97C4@VPEXCH02.purdue.lcl> One further observation: The cleanliness need of your facility is a major factor. If your research requires you to be at the cleanest levels, such as ISO Class 4 (formerly Class 10) and cleaner, then you are generally driven to launderable garments and a carefully controlled cleanroom laundry. Disposable garments certainly won't get you there and the control of in-house laundering is difficult. It requires continuous (high-frequency periodic) monitoring of cleaning performance. It also requires maintenance of the equipment and recertification of cleanliness after maintenance. If you can live with higher levels of particle shedding from the garments, the other options certainly become feasible and Mario's comments are a great guideline. John John R. Weaver Facility Manager Birck Nanotechnology Center Purdue University (765) 494-5494 jrweaver at purdue.edu -----Original Message----- From: labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu [mailto:labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu] On Behalf Of Mario Portillo Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:08 AM To: labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu Subject: [labnetwork] Clean Room Garments Dear Labnetwork Members, Having been 35 years in photolithography I visit Laboratories like yours globally, I would like to share with you my humble observations.. NOT ALL BUDGETS ARE CREATED EQUAL....What works well for one does not mean it is the most economical choice...only means you have the money. 1) "Launder Your Own" seems to be globally the number one choice and of course the most budget forgiving.. It is the most troublesome as you need to assign staff/students to take care of this. It can be a headache to keep a constant fluidity of these garments into the cleanroom at certain times of the year. Budget vs. Headaches......I think budget wins... 2) "Hired Outside Services" Expensive initially to buy the garments and pay for laudering services. Depending on your geographical location it can be expensive to maintain. 3) "Hired Outside Services" Rent the garments and laundering services. Depending on number of students I think the most expensive in the long run. 4) "Throw Away Garments" unless you buy big quantities at a good price and the wear n tear is resonable low, it can be expensive also.... In my opinion.....your budget determines your choice. Regards Mario A. Portillo Sr. High'born Technology USA Inc. Semiconductor Equipment Services 5970 SW 18th St. Suite 227 Boca Raton, FL 33433 561 504-0244 cell 561 470-1975 office 561 395-0074 fax hbtusainc at yahoo.com www.hbtusainc.com _______________________________________________ labnetwork mailing list labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu https://www-mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork From jrweaver at purdue.edu Wed Dec 2 16:44:08 2009 From: jrweaver at purdue.edu (Weaver, John R) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:44:08 -0500 Subject: [labnetwork] Cleanroom Garments In-Reply-To: <859527.58980.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <859527.58980.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18AD986E445FE847B2A80B53E65704ED85707E97C5@VPEXCH02.purdue.lcl> Mario - For the sake of accuracy, my budget is well below six million dollars, but if you would like to make up the difference... John John R. Weaver Facility Manager Birck Nanotechnology Center Purdue University (765) 494-5494 jrweaver at purdue.edu -----Original Message----- From: labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu [mailto:labnetwork-bounces at mtl.mit.edu] On Behalf Of Mario Portillo Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:21 PM To: labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu Subject: [labnetwork] Cleanroom Garments I agree 100% with John from Purdue that the needed cleanliness of your Labs including lab garments absolutly is dictated by the requirements of your research...but blessed are those with a six million dollar yearly operating budget...not your average typical budget.. Just an after thought... Regards Mario A. Portillo Sr. High'born Technology USA Inc. Semiconductor Equipment Services 5970 SW 18th St. Suite 227 Boca Raton, FL 33433 561 504-0244 cell 561 470-1975 office 561 395-0074 fax hbtusainc at yahoo.com www.hbtusainc.com _______________________________________________ labnetwork mailing list labnetwork at mtl.mit.edu https://www-mtl.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo.cgi/labnetwork From hbtusainc at yahoo.com Thu Dec 3 06:48:39 2009 From: hbtusainc at yahoo.com (Mario Portillo) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:48:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [labnetwork] Clean Room Garments Message-ID: <110040.53096.qm@web52302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> No quible on my part either....I am very glad to see the participants expressing their opions and experiences with the laundering of clean room garments. These information from the group helps others seeking consenses and different points of view. Regards and good day.. Mario A. Portillo Sr. High'born Technology USA Inc. Semiconductor Equipment Services 5970 SW 18th St. Suite 227 Boca Raton, FL 33433 561 504-0244 cell 561 470-1975 office 561 395-0074 fax hbtusainc at yahoo.com www.hbtusainc.com From elliscd at auburn.edu Thu Dec 3 09:43:55 2009 From: elliscd at auburn.edu (Charles Ellis) Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 08:43:55 -0600 Subject: [labnetwork] Cleanroom Garments Message-ID: <4B177A4C.84EA.0071.0@auburn.edu> We also use Alsco (out of Durham, NC). We have used them for about 5 years with wonderful service, good price, and quality. We had a large number of suits donated a few years ago and probably spend $600 - $1000/year for laundry. We have enough equipment to maintain - don't want to add a washing machine and dryer! Charles Ellis... Microlab Director Auburn University